[John_1Click]

I'm wanting suggestions on how to handle competitions in future - if we bother at all.

How do members (new and old) want to decide the winner of the competitions? On a personal level it doesn't matter to me but since I run the forum I feel that if we have competitions at all then the winner should be chosen by a method that the majority are happy with and preferably one that rewards the best entry.

We've always let forum members vote for the winner, which I felt was fair enough. People can vote for themselves and that's fine by me. Now here comes the problem (or not depending on your viewpoint). On a couple of instances we have had entrants asking fiends who are not forum members to sign up and vote for them. How do we feel about this? To try and deter this a little (and I might have been wrong to do so) I made it so that members had to have made at least one post before they can vote.

Is this a suitable solution or was there no problem there to start with? It's been brought to my attention that certain other forums regard the voting as "fishy" and that you have to make 10 posts before you can vote - this is not the case. The last thing I want is the integrity of this forum and those who take part in the competitions or those who post or vote to be brought into question.

Let me point out that the winner of the last competition won because they received the most votes and in my opinion was a deserving winner. If the members of any other user group thinks otherwise then they are wrong. There is also no suggestion that any other member has acted improperly. If at all the problem is my fault for allowing the rules to become clouded.

So basically it comes down to this, do we want the competitions to continue and if so what format do we want them to take and how do we want to conduct the vote? I'd appreciate any suggestions or comments, it doesn't matter to me at all if your views are different to mine, that's fine but we do need to have a system in place that everyone understands and also one that doesn't make any 'creative elements' question this boards integrity.

Thanks for your time.

John

[thephotog]

John_1Click, on 08 August 2009 - 06:55 PM, said:

I'm wanting suggestions on how to handle competitions in future - if we bother at all.

How do members (new and old) want to decide the winner of the competitions? On a personal level it doesn't matter to me but since I run the forum I feel that if we have competitions at all then the winner should be chosen by a method that the majority are happy with and preferably one that rewards the best entry.

We've always let forum members vote for the winner, which I felt was fair enough. People can vote for themselves and that's fine by me. Now here comes the problem (or not depending on your viewpoint). On a couple of instances we have had entrants asking fiends who are not forum members to sign up and vote for them. How do we feel about this? To try and deter this a little (and I might have been wrong to do so) I made it so that members had to have made at least one post before they can vote.

Is this a suitable solution or was there no problem there to start with? It's been brought to my attention that certain other forums regard the voting as "fishy" and that you have to make 10 posts before you can vote - this is not the case. The last thing I want is the integrity of this forum and those who take part in the competitions or those who post or vote to be brought into question.

Let me point out that the winner of the last competition won because they received the most votes and in my opinion was a deserving winner. If the members of any other user group thinks otherwise then they are wrong. There is also no suggestion that any other member has acted improperly. If at all the problem is my fault for allowing the rules to become clouded.

So basically it comes down to this, do we want the competitions to continue and if so what format do we want them to take and how do we want to conduct the vote? I'd appreciate any suggestions or comments, it doesn't matter to me at all if your views are different to mine, that's fine but we do need to have a system in place that everyone understands and also one that doesn't make any 'creative elements' question this boards integrity.

Thanks for your time.

John

In my humble opinion, I feel there should not be a competition because I know people can and do get friends and family to vote for them and it would not be an honest vote .

[Chas]

John,
In the past I've participated in voting for friend's entries in other competitions.Had I known your forum had rules in place, I wouldn't have voted.
The integrity of the forum was never in question. The opinions stated by me were mine alone and not of the creative elements forum.
Chas

[dawnllee]

I would not vote for someone just because they are a friend but rather because I think the entry is worthy of winning. I do think that a person should not be allowed to vote more then once for an image.

[Phillip Cullinan]

I actually love having the competion so i can see what other member are doing with the actions. I have seen some amazing photos done and have actually used there methods in a few of my photos which i did not think of so that is why i like it. I like the idea of members having posts before voting but maybe up the ante from just one post to maybe 5. Another method maybe to have voting done in maybe a 24 or 48 hour period and stop new member apps for that time until the comp closes.

Phil

[KimzKreationz]

I guess I can say I am guilty as charged. I apologized to John as I did not know that asking friends to vote was not allowed. Other than the conversations on the 'creative elements' forum I asked everyone that I had asked to vote vote me to not sign up and vote. This was within only a few hours of the competition beginning and at that point I only had a few votes, one being my own of course. I have been asked by friends to vote for them on other forums and contest as well so did not know it was wrong to do so. I also know that not everyone votes for their friend or family members photo if they see one they like better. I have wanted to enter the contest here many times but either didn't have a photo I thought worthy to enter or I was busy and didn't get me entry posted. It is not like I entered this time and then tried to fix the vote. I honestly did not know we weren't suppose to ask friends and family to vote and if anyone I asked to vote for me voted for someone else I would have totally understood. This is your forum John and you should run it the way you want. I would just suggest that the rules for voting be posted more clearly at the beginning of the contest in the first post to avoid future problems.

I am sorry I caused a problem, it was not my intention.

I wanted to add to my post, I know I said the rules should be stated in the voting post, in fact it should be posted in the thread for the months entries in the first post.

[charlee]

John_1Click, on 08 August 2009 - 06:55 PM, said:

I'm wanting suggestions on how to handle competitions in future - if we bother at all.

How do members (new and old) want to decide the winner of the competitions? On a personal level it doesn't matter to me but since I run the forum I feel that if we have competitions at all then the winner should be chosen by a method that the majority are happy with and preferably one that rewards the best entry.

We've always let forum members vote for the winner, which I felt was fair enough. People can vote for themselves and that's fine by me. Now here comes the problem (or not depending on your viewpoint). On a couple of instances we have had entrants asking fiends who are not forum members to sign up and vote for them. How do we feel about this? To try and deter this a little (and I might have been wrong to do so) I made it so that members had to have made at least one post before they can vote.

Is this a suitable solution or was there no problem there to start with? It's been brought to my attention that certain other forums regard the voting as "fishy" and that you have to make 10 posts before you can vote - this is not the case. The last thing I want is the integrity of this forum and those who take part in the competitions or those who post or vote to be brought into question.

Let me point out that the winner of the last competition won because they received the most votes and in my opinion was a deserving winner. If the members of any other user group thinks otherwise then they are wrong. There is also no suggestion that any other member has acted improperly. If at all the problem is my fault for allowing the rules to become clouded.

So basically it comes down to this, do we want the competitions to continue and if so what format do we want them to take and how do we want to conduct the vote? I'd appreciate any suggestions or comments, it doesn't matter to me at all if your views are different to mine, that's fine but we do need to have a system in place that everyone understands and also one that doesn't make any 'creative elements' question this boards integrity.

Thanks for your time.

John

John

The only suggestion I can come up with is that a panel of "admin"/"regular" contributors are selected to vote on the photos... But instead of singular votes to say "I like this best" the panel must judge each photo out of 10? and then the winner is the one with the highest number. Maybe start a chat/thread and offer reasons why you like this... might encourage more people to participate if they are getting direct feedback on their shots and post processing... improving their chances of winning more comps. similar to a camera club. Not only that, other people can get more information on how a shot was processed and gain more skills.

Those that are on the panel are allowed to place entries, and because each photo will have been judged, there shouldnt be a risk of someone voting for themselves to win... or if this doesnt suit, have a rotational panel so people can still place entries but are not put in a position where the voting could be bias?

This method removes the "temptation" to get friends to vote for them in order of winning a prize, its fair, but it takes dedication. But the overall results would far outway the minimal time it would take to judge the photos.

Just a suggestion, and I would be happy to contribute my time if this method is chosen.

[Lorna_W]

John_1Click, on 08 August 2009 - 06:55 PM, said:

I'm wanting suggestions on how to handle competitions in future - if we bother at all.

How do members (new and old) want to decide the winner of the competitions? On a personal level it doesn't matter to me but since I run the forum I feel that if we have competitions at all then the winner should be chosen by a method that the majority are happy with and preferably one that rewards the best entry.

We've always let forum members vote for the winner, which I felt was fair enough. People can vote for themselves and that's fine by me. Now here comes the problem (or not depending on your viewpoint). On a couple of instances we have had entrants asking fiends who are not forum members to sign up and vote for them. How do we feel about this? To try and deter this a little (and I might have been wrong to do so) I made it so that members had to have made at least one post before they can vote.

Is this a suitable solution or was there no problem there to start with? It's been brought to my attention that certain other forums regard the voting as "fishy" and that you have to make 10 posts before you can vote - this is not the case. The last thing I want is the integrity of this forum and those who take part in the competitions or those who post or vote to be brought into question.

Let me point out that the winner of the last competition won because they received the most votes and in my opinion was a deserving winner. If the members of any other user group thinks otherwise then they are wrong. There is also no suggestion that any other member has acted improperly. If at all the problem is my fault for allowing the rules to become clouded.

So basically it comes down to this, do we want the competitions to continue and if so what format do we want them to take and how do we want to conduct the vote? I'd appreciate any suggestions or comments, it doesn't matter to me at all if your views are different to mine, that's fine but we do need to have a system in place that everyone understands and also one that doesn't make any 'creative elements' question this boards integrity.

Thanks for your time.

John

I quite like the idea of having a panel who would judge images and rate them from 1 to 10 as well as put their comments on each so that everyone can learn from each other and also it would then not be possible for anyone to “ask” friends to vote for them. I think that the winner this time deserved to win on merit as she didn’t have to try and influence the voting process and I congratulate her. It is a pity that one member’s actions should have spoiled the competition for the rest of the entrants. The competition is run for our benefit and it is up to us to be trustworthy competitors.

[fracrom]

Perhaps it is worth taking a look at L.& C.P.U.s way of voting for their online comps.

[Kat]

Personally I would have no problem with John just choosing the winner. 1clickactions put up the prizes and run the forum so why not pick the winner? I'm sure only the best pictures would get chosen.

fracrom, on 09 August 2009 - 10:42 AM, said:

Perhaps it is worth taking a look at L.& C.P.U.s way of voting for their online comps.

Had a look at the site but can't see how the voting works.

Kat

[karenb]

People who want to 'win' at any cost will nearly always find a way of circumventing any rules.

Number of posts can be avoided, by making posts. Length of membership (greater than x days / weeks) would possibly be a better restriction, but for the determined, all they have to do is plan in advance!

Personally I now don’t vote in comps where I have entered. For me there is no satisfaction in knowing my own vote tipped the balance to me, and it is very annoying when I find I lost by one vote to someone I voted for! . So I abstain.

I like the idea of the competitions. It is good for the participants – encouraging creativity and progression, and learning from others. And it is good for the forum, generating interest, traffic and hopefully ultimately a bit more revenue for the owner!

Having a judge (or judges) to pick the winner may end up being a drain on running the comp, and is likely to be even more open to complaints! (how often do we disagree with judges? ) . At least a majority verdict can’t be argued with on that score.

If the forum software allows it I would prevent self voting and multiple voting (so only 1 vote per person) and possibly use length of membership and / or posts to restrict who can vote. A statement of the rules (whether software enforced or not) at the start of each competition post would be good encouragement to play fair.

[John]

I for one was not aware of the rules or issues, but this has certainly brought them to the forefront.

I am in favour of posting the rules/guidelines and if it continues to show problems, go with a panel.

[IBJC]

John, you can still have people vote for their favorites but you pick a panel of 3 or whatever to decide and the votes do not count in the final decision of the panel. If the panel choses 3 different entry's then you have the final vote for the 3 chosen. Something along those lines... Hope that helps. I think the voting is fun! The panel is fair.

[gfs217]

John,

I think the competition is a great tool and asset to your site. I think people like me who are new to Photoshop and Actions have a chance to see how people use PS to enhance their images.

My feelings are that "ONLY" members that have purchased the Actions should be able to vote.

Stuffing the ballot box by having people register and vote for them is not doing them any justice.

I don't know if the system can validate the user ID and check to see if they are a registered user of the actions.

After the voting the administrator and a senior panel of members ( 2to3 ) should review the entries to determine if the "creative side" of the image should be selected.

I know this is your forum and you have the last say, but I sincerely hope that you continue the competition.

Thanks,

Gerry Sharp

[John_1Click]

Thanks to everyone who has commented so far. I think that the general concensus (based on this thread and also the private messages I've received) is that the competitions should continue and this is something I'm happy to do, although I'm still not certain of the format as yet. Any further somments/suggestions are most appreciated.

The idea of a 'panel' of some sort is coming up quite often but the problem I have with this is how do we decide on the panel? I don't want to decide the winner myself as I think this would cause as many issues as it solves.

Having some further restriction on who can vote is possible and reasonable but the 'one post before you can vote rule' was already seen in some quarters as draconian.

I quite like the idea of having to have bought some 1-click products in the past as being a requirement to vote but I'll have to look into the practicalities of setting this up within the confines of the forum software - I want it as automated as possible. What I could look at is automatically registering customers as forum members when they place an order but this leaves the problem of existing members. If I can implement this in a reasonably easy manner then this is a possible option.

Keep the suggestions coming and thanks again for your comments.

John

[CJ Dennis]

I think that you should certainly continue the competitions in some form. I like the idea of a member vote in some form so the idea about only previous 1-click customers being entitled to vote seems a viable option. As has been pointed out any system is open to abuse but I believe that the restricted voting would help reduce it to a minimum.

CJ

[dags]

I always find it very dissapointing in online photo comps when people vote for the person, rather than the quality of the photo, but unfortunately it does happen regularly. To actively go & round up friends to vote for you is another matter. I find it hard to believe that the person that did this actually thinks there is nothing wrong with it. How could you possibly have any sort of pride in winning under those circumstances. Some sort of sick pride in getting away with cheating maybe. I also think voting for yourself is unethical & should be banned.

A couple of suggestions.

1. Forum membership restricted to those who have purchased 1 Click Actions
2. Voting restricted to those who enter the competition only & you have to vote for somebody other than yourself

Regards
Steve

[John_1Click]

dags, on 23 August 2009 - 02:13 AM, said:

I always find it very dissapointing in online photo comps when people vote for the person, rather than the quality of the photo, but unfortunately it does happen regularly. To actively go & round up friends to vote for you is another matter. I find it hard to believe that the person that did this actually thinks there is nothing wrong with it. How could you possibly have any sort of pride in winning under those circumstances. Some sort of sick pride in getting away with cheating maybe. I also think voting for yourself is unethical & should be banned.

A couple of suggestions.

1. Forum membership restricted to those who have purchased 1 Click Actions
2. Voting restricted to those who enter the competition only & you have to vote for somebody other than yourself

Regards
Steve

Thanks Steve (and everyone else) for your suggestions. I think that in some forums getting friends to vote goes on and is accepted as the norm but I think we need a system whereby everyone works to the same guidelines and as you say the best picture should win. Just to clarify on the last competition Charlee was a fair winner - she did nothing wrong whatsoever.

I've actually suggested voting for yourself on a couple of occasions as I know it happens and wanted no one to be disadvantaged by not doing so and also I didn't know how to prevent it

Restricting votes to 1clickactions customers has been suggested a few times now and I think this is the way to go. I think restricting those entitled to vote just to comptition entrants might be a little too restrictive.

So here's what I've decided:

The competition will continue as most people want them to.
Only forum members who are also customers will be entitled to vote.
Voting for yourself will be discouraged.

There'll be no competition this month as it'll take a while to set up the new member groups required to restrict voters, I'l also start a new thread with a clearer set of guidelines for the future.

Thanks again to everyone who made suggestions.

John

[Phillip Cullinan]

John_1Click, on 23 August 2009 - 08:44 AM, said:

Thanks Steve (and everyone else) for your suggestions. I think that in some forums getting friends to vote goes on and is accepted as the norm but I think we need a system whereby everyone works to the same guidelines and as you say the best picture should win. Just to clarify on the last competition Charlee was a fair winner - she did nothing wrong whatsoever.

I've actually suggested voting for yourself on a couple of occasions as I know it happens and wanted no one to be disadvantaged by not doing so and also I didn't know how to prevent it

Restricting votes to 1clickactions customers has been suggested a few times now and I think this is the way to go. I think restricting those entitled to vote just to comptition entrants might be a little too restrictive.

So here's what I've decided:

The competition will continue as most people want them to.
Only forum members who are also customers will be entitled to vote.
Voting for yourself will be discouraged.

There'll be no competition this month as it'll take a while to set up the new member groups required to restrict voters, I'l also start a new thread with a clearer set of guidelines for the future.

Thanks again to everyone who made suggestions.

John

Well done John,

Agree with Charlee having the best Image. Well done to Charlee.

Keep up the great work John

Phil

[John_1Click]

Sorry it's taken a while to get around to it but I've made one or two changes to the voting rules for competitions. In future competitions (I'll set one up in the next week or two) only members who are also paying customers will be allowed to vote in the competitions. Please see This Post for details.

Once again thanks for your comments and patience.

John